royalfieldartillery

Lieutenant John Lyle Barr was a Forward Observation Officer for C Battery of 157th Brigade (CLVII Brigade), Royal Field Artillery. CLVII (Aberdeen) Brigade was raised in Scotland in August 1915 as part of Kitchener's New Army to support 35th Division. 35th Division was originally primarily made up of 'Bantam' battalions, men under 5' 3" who had previously been declined for military service as beneath the stipulated height requirement.

This 'Bantam' Division trained in North Yorkshire and went to France in in late January and early February 1916. 35th Division (104, 105 and 106 Brigades) was committed to the attack on the First Day of the Battle of the Somme on 1st July 1916.

On the 20th July 1916, the 35th Division were tasked with an assault in the area of the village of Guillemont. C Battery of CLVII Brigade RFA was probably in Direct Support of 20th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers (4th Salford Pals) and John Lyle Barr would have been working with their Command Group to direct the fire of the guns by telephone and runner.
It is difficult to ascertain what objectives they were assigned to capture but a section of trench between ‘Arrow Head Copse’ and Maltz Horn Farm was to be cleared of the enemy, and it could also have been to support a French attack on their right at Maurepas. Whatever the objective, the attack went nowhere and cost the 35th Division 450 casualties from combined rifle, machine gun and shell fire. There was a specific action in Trones Wood commencing at 4.30am on 24th July in which 20th Lancashire Fusiliers were involved and took significant casualties. Of interest is the astonishing story of Captain Richard Coke MC who led this attack (see www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/gallerynew/20THBN/20thBN.htm ).

John Lyle Barr is buried in Abbeville Communal Cemetery, Abbeville, Departement de la Somme, Picardie, France, in Plot: VI. B. 2. This cemetery served No 2 and No 5 Stationary Hospitals to which many seriously wounded casualties of the Somme battlefield were evacuated.

John Lyle Barr is also commemorated in Argentina on the First World War Memorial in St. Andrew’s Church, Buenos Aires, suggesting that he was employed and living in South America, returning home to fight for his country.//

His name appears on Bridge of Weir War Memorial as 2nd LT J LYLE BARR - RFA. Family members confirm that he was known as "Lyle". Following article is from the Paisley and Renfrewshire Gazette, 5th August 1916. " SECOND SON KILLED: Information was received last Friday by Mrs Barr, Rockcliff, Bridge of Weir, of the death from wounds of Second-Lieutenant J. Lyle Barr, R.F.A., at No.2 Stationary Hospital, Abbeville, France. He was the third son of the late James Barr C.E., Glasgow, and was employed for eight years with Messrs Agar Cross & Co., Ltd., for three years in London, five years in their Buenos Aires office. He was a keen sportsman and belonged to a Rugby team and the Tigre boating club in Buenos Aires. While playing for his team, his knee was badly injured, rendering him unfit for Military Service had he not undergone an operation on coming to this country. Lieut. Barr received his commission on March 31st 1915, shortly after his elder brother was killed in Cuinchy, France, while serving with the Glasgow Highlanders, and he proceeded to France with his regiment early in February of this year. He had only returned from hospital at Havre after a short illness when he received his wounds. Lieut. Barr’s sunny disposition made him a favourite amongst his friends, by all of whom his death will be much regretted."
The family memorial in Kilbarchan Cemetery, near Bridge of Weir reads: "oSacred to the memory of JAMES BARR who died at Rockcliff, Bridge of Weir 28th July 1910 in his 67th year and of his wife MARY TRAIN who died at Rockcliff Bridge of Weir 6th Sept. 1918 in her 67th year and his sons Priv. FREDERICK TRAIN BARR C. Coy. Glasgow Highlanders killed in action in France 25th Feb. 1915 in his 27th year. 2nd Lieut. JOHN LYLE BARR 159th Brig. Royal Field Artillery died of wounds at Abbeville, France 26th July 1916 in his 27th year. Capt. WILLIAM SPIERS BARR 18th Highland Lt. Infantry died of wounds at Sorel-le-Grand France 23rd May 1917 in his 23rd year."

Help piece together the Life Stories of more than 8 million men and women who made a contribution during the First World War at www.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/

archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/2013-0...
Press, 20 February 1915, Page 13
ON SERVICE. THE NEW ZEALAND ROLL. IN ARMY AND NAVY.
LONDON, January 5. That New Zealanders abroad have not been slow to tender
their services in defence of the Empire will be
evident from the following list of those who are at present on service with
the British Army and Navy and Auxiliary Forces.
Abraham, L. M. (Palmerston North); student at Cambridge; Corporal King
Edward's Horse; now 2nd Lieutenant Royal Field Artillery

Help piece together the Life Stories of more than 8 million men and women who made a contribution during the First World War at www.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/

I don't know anything about this man but in the 1970s I did know someone called John Abbott from Derby who was uncannily like this man (no longer in touch, I'm afraid). Perhaps this man might be from Derby? An inquiry to the Derby local paper might produce a response?

This could be tenuous and I hope someone with access to better records can come in and prove \ disprove the following.

I couldn't find a Medal Index Card Listing at the National Archive for a Lieutenant J P Abbott using most of the variations I could think off. So then I wondered if perhaps the photograph was taken while he was in training and that he was promoted prior to actual entering a Theatre of War - and that higher rank would be on the MIC.

So I tried searching for him as Captain Abbott of the Artillery and came up with a potential match - a Joseph Palmer Abbott, a Captain of the Royal Field Artillery. Most intriguing was the fact that his previous rank had been Private 1792 in the Australian Infantry Force. The Medal Index Card reference is WO 372/1/2434
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D9...

Of course if that was all I had I would have left it there - there is no matching candidate on the Commonwealth War Graves Commissions site for example. However there are a lot of good sources out there about individuals who served in the AIF - and a search for more information about Joseph Palmer Abbott produced an article in the Australian National Biography series about him - both his wartime service and subsequent role in the Australian Wool Industry and Australian Politics. The crux is that the article is illustrated with a picture (taken circa 1940) of an older man but there are definately a number of shared characteristics. My supposition is that its the same individual.

I won't post more here from his biography in case I'm wrong, but heres a link so you can check out the picture.
adb.anu.edu.au/biography/abbott-joseph-palmer-joe-9303

His Australian Army Records can be seen here
recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NameSearch/Interface/ItemDetail.a...

Supplement 11286 to the London Gazette dated 24th September 1918 publishes the Citation for the award of the Military Cross to Joseph Palmer Abbott, but shows him to be serving with the South African Force:

Lieutenant Joseph Palmer Abbott RFA; Special Reserve.

"For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty when enemy shelling set fire to charges and exploded shells in two gun pits. He ran with two men and jumped into a burning pit, and by tearing down the burning camouflage, extinguished the fire. His promptitude and courage were of great service."

On 2nd November 1918, Lieutenant J. P. Abbott MC RFA (Special Reserve), was appointed Acting Captain whilst 2nd in Command, (BK - Battery Captain), of a Battery; [London Gazette of 7th January 1919].

Lieutenant J. P. Abbott MC RFA relinquished his Commission wef 1st April 1920 [London Gazette of 17th August 1920].//

Moominpappa06 The photo is of him or a close relative.

Ancestry shows him to be the youngest son of Sir Joseph Palmer Abbott (1842-1901). JPA jnr was born 18 Oct 1891 and died 7 May 1965 according to online family trees. Australian Electoral Rolls show him living in Scone, Paterson, New South Wales.